You all know much The Spotlight Effect series means to me, and it’s one of my favorite things I’ve ever done. This installment is filled with so many amazing nuggets, because it’s with someone who always makes me think about things beyond the point I could have on my own.
Valerie and I went to high school together, and she was always someone I admired and loved to keep up with. Even now, years later when we live in different states, Valerie is still someone I hope I always stay in touch with. I always feel like she’s rooting for me, and I’m rooting right back.
Reading this conversation back, I feel like I’ve taken away even more things from Valerie than I did the first time we had it. As always, I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And you may be wondering how this photoshoot even happened, considering we are miles apart, but if Vogue can do a FaceTime photoshoot, so can I.
Caroline: So my first question that I ask is, if you even remember, what’s the first thing you noticed about me? Or the first thing you notice about me in general?
Valerie: I remember you in math class, 100%, because we sat at the same table. I was like, this girl’s way too cool, like she’s really smart, and I was like HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO CHEAT OFF OF HER?! I just remember that you were really smart, it was almost intimidating, and you were kind of sassy. Like I just thought you were cool, one year under me, and I was apparently class clown 2014, so I was a mess 24/7, and I was just like wow, this girl’s really got it together. That’s probably the most formidable memory I have. I’m in math class somehow with this girl that’s pretty cool and kind of scary.
C: NOOO! Oh my god, I remember people used to come up to me when we were graduating and be like, I always wanted to be friends with you but you’re so intimidating, and I was like WHAT ABOUT ME?! And I was never “cool”, whatever that means, and so every time someone said that I was like, what are you talking about??? I also remember you from math class, and I just thought you were really nice and funny and I always thought you had really pretty eyelashes.
V: Pshh, not anymore, I think I’m aging.
C: Obviously we think people notice so many things about us that they actually don’t, so what is your biggest insecurity, or one of them?
V: That is so tough, I have a list. I think it’s so human to be insecure and I think a misconception we have about insecurities is that we don’t want people to notice them, and sometimes people will notice them, but it’s okay. It doesn’t de-value you as a person. So for example, I’m… kind of fat, I have acne, I don’t fit societies standards of beauty, so I am super, hyper aware that I just don’t look like people around me sometimes. Those are all things that make me uncomfortable when I walk into a room and they’re all things I need to be at peace with, because I deserve to exist comfortably. Like yes, I’m kind of fat, yes that is okay, yes I’m allowed to be insecure, yes I’m allowed to exist, yes I can do whatever I want. Same thing with acne, I have really bad cystic acne, and you will notice it, and that’s okay, because it’s just my body! So I can honestly give you a laundry list of things I’m insecure about, of things that I don’t see in social media, or in my coworkers, or fellow classmates, so maybe I’m just insecure about it all, but it’s okay!
“I think it’s so human to be insecure“
C: I totally get what you’re saying. I think a lot of people feel like confidence and insecurity can’t coexist, but they definitely can. It definitely happens, and I’m sure I have more stereotypical “beauty standards”, like I’m white, I have light eyes, I’m relatively thin, and all these things, but at the same time, I’ve also never felt like I have that standard, this is what everyone thinks is pretty, look. It’s crazy to think about, because especially as women, it’s like there’s almost a trend of what’s seen as attractive, it’s like we’re a commodity.
V: WE ARE! They commodify our insecurities because they’re capitalist assholes. Put THAT on the record. It’s just wild. Like I get to hate myself sometimes, but YOU don’t!!! I’m working on it, you have no right to tell me what I should do with my body and what it should look like. If anyone is going to make me feel insecure, it’s definitely not going to be you.
C: Especially with social media being a big thing now, you see all these people and you’re like, oh my god, they have such a big following literally just because they look good.
V: Like I’m cute, I just don’t look like that. I personally think you deserve to go viral. I don’t know how, I don’t know why, but what you post, and the way you post makes me be like, how does this bitch not have more followers?! It makes me so mad!
C: Oh my gosh stop, thank you. I mean, not gonna lie, my feed is cute!
V: It is cute, and you’re putting out content that’s creative, you’re doing the work. I just feel like you deserve more recognition. I just deserve more recognition for being me, I think.
C: Hell yeah! I think you’re a great follow too! Isn’t it weird how the more followers you have, the more opportunities you get?
V: It’s ridiculous, you could do so much, it really is just all about marketing, and I think we’re both trying to figure that out. That’s like your extension to make content, share things about yourself, make money, HELLO!!!
C: Have the insecurities you have now always been the same or have they changed over time.
V: Oh they’ve been like super the same. Growing up I was a really fat kid and had crazy acne, and my family would always tell me about my insecurities. Like little birdies. I feel bad, because I don’t know why they think the way they think. I remember being really young, and I didn’t know what a stretch mark was, and a family member being like you can do these things to fix this, and that’s been my whole entire life. Kids are really fucked up by their family sometimes. I was just about to get to high school and someone in my family was like, when you’re 18, you can get liposuction.
C: *gasps*
“If anyone is going to make me feel insecure, it’s definitely not going to be you.“
V: I was like, I mean… I don’t think I want to do that! I heard really crazy things growing up about fat bodies and my acne. I always had people telling me that I’m pretty, but I’m fat. I would get picked on in school and told I’d probably be really attractive if I wasn’t kind of fat! Like I can be pretty and fat, or skinny and whatever!!! Who cares, you don’t get to say anything, and I don’t know why you think you should. So a lot of my insecurities probably stem from the fact that as a child I was told that all these things were wrong. It creates so many different problems for people when you put them into boxes. I need to realize that I’m not as big as I think I am in my head, because I’m not really midsized but I’m also not really plus sized. So you think, and I allowed to be insecure? Should I be grateful that I’m not too fat?
C: I relate to that, because when I was younger I was the chubby kid, and I’m not one of those people that is naturally skinny. When I was younger I was overweight, then I was underweight, and now I’m a “normal” weight, whatever that means, I’m healthy. My body is at a set point, and when I was younger I remember people commenting on my weight when it was at both its extremes and it never bothered me when people commented on what I was eating, but it bothered me when they commented on the way I looked, because even when it was supposed to be a compliment, it felt backhanded.
V: You shouldn’t talk about people’s bodies. We all do it, but we have to unlearn that.
C: Yeah, when I was underweight I remember someone saying, “I wish I was as skinny as you, but with my ass.” Like what?!
V: We have a lot of learning to do.
C: I know I’m thin, but sometimes, you’re right, being on the thinner side, I sometimes think, do I even have the right to be insecure about my body, because people probably don’t look at me and think I’m too big, but at the same time, I don’t have the “ideal” body. Even when you’re at peace with the way you look, there’s always that voice in your head trying to tell you that something is off.
V: You’re allowed to be insecure, no matter what you look like. Something I always notice about you is how open you are talking about insecurities, eating disorders, body neutrality, and all those things. When I was smaller, I still thought there was a problem, and I relate to you in a way, because we were both that kid that didn’t really fit in, and suddenly we fit in perfectly to what people think we should look like, and it’s really hard to acknowledge that we had problems with food and our bodies in a way that hurt us. The fact that in your head, you were like, there is a problem, and you were always so open in sharing so much, and I was grateful because I could relate.
C: Aw, thank you. To me, obviously it’s personal, but it was something I didn’t mind talking about at all, because so many people feel like they’re alone in this, so I might as well say something, because eating disorders don’t all look a certain way. The way I went through it, I wasn’t anorexic or bulimic, so I didn’t think I had a problem.
V: I’m happy that we’re in a place where we’re just trying our best.
C: Yeah, I always say, on some days you hate your body, on some days you love your body, but on all days you respect your body.
V: That’s it.
C: For me, my body has been a consistent insecurity, but then there’s other little ones that change over time. Like when I was younger I used to hate my eyes.
V: Crazy!
C: Yeah, I didn’t like how they looked in pictures. Now I don’t have a problem with them, however I do hate my under eyes! I want filler so bad.
V: And that’s okay!
C: But I don’t have filler money so. Do you feel like people notice your insecurities, or that it’s a you thing?
V: I would say, surely people notice things about me, but I’m one of those people who tries to hide my insecurities so I’ve always been told I’m really confident, and yes, I am, but also to mask the fact that I walk into a room and feel like a garbage can. So maybe people don’t notice I’m insecure, but I am, and I try really hard not to be. I don’t know if that’s right or wrong, but I’ve come to a place where I can just be like, I’m uncomfortable right now, because that’s confidence too, right? I acknowledge I’m insecure, and I’m trying my best, and that should be enough. Like you said, they’re just insecurities to us, and chances are people don’t notice. I mean, I notice everything about everyone, not in a judgmental way, because I don’t care, but I will notice everything, so I unconsciously think people are doing that to me.
C: I agree with that. A lot of the times when I tell someone one of my insecurities, they’re like, I don’t see it, that’s not a thing. I do objectively notice things like you, too. You know that question people will ask, like, what’s the first thing you notice about someone? And they’ll be like oh, their eyes, their smile, whatever. I don’t have one thing I notice first about everyone. It’s different depending on the person. It’s never a bad thing that I notice first, it’s just a random thing that stands out to me, usually something I like about them. A lot of the time it’s what someone is wearing because I’m always looking for inspiration.
V: It’s not good or bad, like yeah I’ll notice something, but I don’t have the right to think anything about it.
C: Everyone always says beauty is subjective, but why does that not always transfer over to people. Why do we stop there?
V: Because we’re assholes and they make money off of our insecurities.
“…I’m trying my best, and that should be enough.”
C: That’s very true. Do you feel like you compare yourself to other people?
V: So much, all the time, 24/7. I’m in a constant state of comparison, but every time I encounter a thought like that, I go, wait a second Valerie, you don’t need to do that, because you’re an individual. I just want to be grateful for people and where they are in life. There’s no reason to compare ourselves to each other, because it’s not a competition. You don’t have to put other people down to make yourself feel better, so why do we do it? We can all be cute together.
C: I think as I’ve gotten older, obviously I’ll still compare myself to people in a physical sense, but now it’s usually more about what they’re doing. I feel like I’m not doing anything with my life and all these people are millionaires at the age of two.
V: Insecurities are so many things and fear of failure is definitely one of them.
C: Yes, especially when you feel like you’re trying so hard, and this person is literally doing nothing and succeeding. On a more positive note, what’s something you love about yourself?
V: Ooh, I was just thinking about it because it’s international women’s month and it really had me thinking, wait a minute, why do I hate myself? And I don’t remember why! I know this sounds kind of weird, but I think I’m starting to like my really broad shoulders. I think it’s because my grandma always tells me I have my great-grandma’s back. I think I like that now, because my broad shoulders bring my grandmother comfort. They’re something that’s stable, that’s always there. I feel like my presence brings people security or peace, and I feel like I should be grateful to my body for doing so much for myself and others. I’ve never really thought about my shoulders like that until five seconds ago, and I’m like, why do I think that? First of all, I’m doing the world a great service for existing, trying my best, there’s no rhyme or reason for why we’re here, so the fact that my body brings me and others security is good. That’s something I’m really happy I was able to uncover while speaking to you, it’s like woah! She’s doing things.
C: I love that so much. There’s so many things we don’t notice right away. I also love my shoulders and my arms. My shoulders are pretty broad because of years of swimming and I don’t think they’ll ever go away, and I also have pretty muscular arms, and I used to think they weren’t feminine, but now I love them and how strong they look.
V: Maybe we love being strong and capable. Our bodies are honestly just vibing.
“You don’t have to put other people down to make yourself feel better…”
C: Lastly, when do you feel the most confident?
V: I feel the most confident when my body is doing hard things. I’m just like wow, she really did that. I don’t know how to explain it, but I live in Colorado now and there’s a lot of outdoorsy things to do. Apparently I really like mountains, so when I’m challenging myself I’m like wow this sucks, but also I’m trying my best, and somehow my body puts one foot in front of the other and keeps moving forward. At work I do a lot physical labor and I’m constantly pushing myself, picking heavy things up or pushing things, and I feel really confident when my body is doing hard things or takes care of me. I’m a fainter, but my body gives me signals when it’s going to happen and it gives me deep appreciation for it. And I don’t know, maybe a cute milkmaid top. Physically challenging things, and cute milkmaid crop tops make me feel good about myself, that’s what comes to mind.
C: Honestly we are the same. I love that I am so in tune with my body now and I know when something’s off or when my period is coming or something, and that’s so cool to me. But also a cute outfit! I don’t even care if I look crazy to other people as long as I like it.
V: One day we’re gonna die, and we’re gonna be like, why did we care so much? Like I’ll be on my death bed thinking, this girl said my shoes were ugly!!! I might as well do whatever I want. Do whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
C: Exactly, like if you’re in the right headspace, do you.
V: Absolutely! It’s all about where you’re at. I’m not gonna be another thing that makes me feel bad about myself. I spent so many years terrified of my body and it changing, and that’s so insane to me. I put on a pair of pants today that don’t fit anymore, and you know what I did? PUT ON A BIGGER SIZE PANT! It took SO many years for me to be comfortable just putting on another pair of pants. My brain was at war with my body, because I was just taught that it should be.
C: Yes!!! Life is just a whole journey of unlearning things we were taught.
V: Not only do I have to undo trauma you caused me, but generational trauma that you cause me because of YOUR family.
C: We’re just doing our best.
